Interview w/ Sibongile Oageng Msimango

Could you introduce yourself and your (research) work?

My name is Sibongile Oageng Msimango, I am a daughter, sister, writer, researcher, and growing curator from and currently based in Johannesburg, South Africa. In a nutshell, my research looks at the organisational, funding, decision-making, spatial and linguistic structures of non-profit project spaces primarily based in Berlin, which engage in public space and community. I focus on how they sustain themselves, how they make decisions, how they connect with their target community, how they are viewed by this community, what language they use to appeal to them and articulate their work and what are the spatial circumstances in which they find themselves.


You just finished your 3 months residency at Z/KU Berlin to research creative practice within collaborative associations. Your work explores the relationship between creativity and urban development, where cultural production is intertwined with infrastructure and city planning. Could you elaborate on this relationship and share any notable findings from your research?

Well, one thing for sure is that three months is not enough time to do an in-depth look into this relationship. That is why this research I am conducting is on-going. What is interesting about the urban areas is that they come to life due to migration of people, mixture of cultures and complex histories. In the context of Berlin, much of how the city developed in the 90s, 2000s and 2010s was inextricable from the strong presence of cultural practitioners and their work. I am interested in learning more about how cultural/creative work has given way to drafting or adjusting policies within the context of urban development. How do we as creatives actively contribute to shaping the cities in which we live?


You were born and still live in South Africa - What are some unique characteristics or challenges that you have observed in the collaborative spaces in South Africa compared to those in Germany?

The contexts in South Africa and Germany are quite different. First and foremost, Germany is one of the strongest economies in western Europe and has greatly gained from its colonial history. South Africa is a country situated in the Global South, with a political, psychological, and socio-spatial history of segregation. With that said, many of the challenges that may differ from Germany are due to the context of South Africa as a colonised state, but also due to the fundamental principle of the apartheid regime (the ruling government centred on white supremacy +/- 1948-1994): separation of social groups. Meaning that areas that were allocated to a particular social group (whites) tend to have more resources, infrastructure, and access to good public service. Whereas those that were allocated for people of colour were the opposite. Very unfortunately, this history remains prevalent today. This would be one of the biggest challenges of collaborative creative spaces: the disparity between access to opportunity, resources, and networks among creatives of different communities and ethnicities.
In terms of characteristics, I would like to highlight the similarity between Berlin and Johannesburg in particular. Both are big cities where many people move to hustle and make a living. The diversity in cultural offerings, the mixture of cultures, the history of divide, the grunge and dirt of the city, and the living collective memory (which is often selective) are all aspects of Berlin that remind me of Johannesburg.


What can German collaborative spaces learn from those in South Africa, and vice versa? Are there any valuable lessons or best practices that can be shared between the two contexts?

I think what German creative spaces can learn from those in South Africa is how to be flexible, especially amidst circumstances of infrastructural or political limitations. What South African creative spaces can learn from German ones, is how to lobby for the needs of creatives in the policy-making arena.


In your research you focus on horizontality/mutuality, community, second chance/second life and social justice/activism. What role do these practices play for a socio-ecological transformation?

I personally think these practices play a pivotal and vital role in socio-ecological transformation. To achieve such transformation, we first need to shift our understanding of value, how it can be obtained and for what reason. When we have a horizontal decision-making approach, we include a diversity of perspectives and allow all involved to have a voice and say in how things can be achieved. Of course, this is never simple. Yet the mere fact of avoiding a strictly top-down approach already presents value in a way that is more inclusive and complex. It starts to take different cultural and lived perspectives into consideration to complicate the narrative that a particular perspective should be the benchmark for all. Which also ushers in different ways of relating to nature and viewing ourselves as a part of nature instead of above it or conquerors of it.


What is your definition of coexistence? 

Wow. What a word. For me, co-existence is learning to live together with all our differences, circumstances, beliefs, and cultures. It's not about living in harmony, because I feel that is unrealistic. However, it's about learning how to be more aware of lived experiences outside of those most similar or familiar to our immediate social environment. It's about understanding our privilege, insecurities, humanity, our ugly, beauty and so much in between.  It's about showing up, being present and humbling ourselves, even when we may feel like a fish out of water. It is about opening ourselves to what we may not know. It's about being vulnerable and making space to be shook, to be challenged, to grow, to accept and to love at whichever point we may find ourselves in our respective journeys on this earth.